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D

Norms Bait and Tackle

Started by dapphne, March 30, 2016, 09:23:16 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

angelface555

And in Texas, "State Rep. Bill Zedler,  a Republican, is pushing a bill that would make it easier for parents to opt out of vaccinations for their children. He's doing this while there's a measles outbreak in the state.

"They want to say people are dying of measles. Yeah, in third-world countries they're dying of measles," Zedler said, shaking his head. "Today, with antibiotics and that kind of stuff, they're not dying in America." Zedler says he's adamantly in favor of "freedom of conscience" and against mandatory vaccination. "This is not the Soviet Union, you know." 

"Texas has had eight confirmed cases of measles so far this year, and in 2017, mumps cases reached a 20-year high. Yet now Zedler and other anti-vaccine lawmakers want to make it even easier to opt out of childhood vaccinations, and they're trying to keep the public from accessing information about exemption rates.

...

"This is the modus operandi for anti-vaxxers in Texas: to promote exemptions, obfuscate and minimize transparency," said Peter Hotez, a leading vaccine scientist and dean for the National School for Tropical Medicine at Baylor Medical School. "To do this in the middle of a measles outbreak in Texas is especially unconscionable."

I don't know where to begin.
The reason more people don't die of measles in America is because we have vaccinations, not antibiotics. It's only because people are avoiding shots for their kids that we've seen more outbreaks in recent years.

We're even more dependent on the measles, mumps, rubella (MMR) vaccine because there is no other treatment for the disease.

There is no known treatment for measles, a highly contagious virus that once sickened millions of patients each year in the United States. Instead, health-care professionals try to prevent the disease by administering the MMR vaccine to children, and certain people who have been exposed, such as pregnant women, may be given a protein injection called immune serum globulin to try to thwart it or to lessen the symptoms, according to the Mayo Clinic.

Antibiotics, which are used to treat bacterial infections, cannot kill viruses.

Public health experts have warned against spreading bogus information about vaccines, thereby contributing to an anti-vaccine movement that has been sustained, in part, by fraudulent research from 1998 that purported to show a link between a preservative used in vaccines and autism.

In summary, antibiotics can't treat measles. Nothing can except vaccines. The reason people aren't dying from measles in mass numbers anymore is because of the exact thing the Republican is campaigning against. It's dangerous. It's anti-scientific. And it's still not all that shocking given the source.

Zedler is spreading the very misinformation that contributes to this problem. And like other anti-vaxxers, he needs to be held responsible for their lies."

angelface555

And while some may say these posts are political, I say they're more about us, our children, nieces and nephews and grandchildren. What type of world are we leaving them?

MarsGal

Patricia, you may be right about the blue body painting. I remember in school we learned that both the Celts and the Picts were in Scotland. Newer archaeological evidence may give better info. Now I am wondering about the Celtic tribes in mainland Europe. I will be watching for this in my early Roman histories, including Caesar.

BTW, I just subscribed to Archaeology Magazine the other day. It has been a long time since I regularly followed things archaeological other than the occasional story I run across.

Mary Ann

#12273
I had shots when I was young, but I'm not sure the measles vaccine was available then.  I had measles and chickenpox.  And I had measles again when I was 19-20 years old.  I think I caught it from either the mailman who came into our office, because he had them too, or I caught it from riding on the bus to work.  I had a mild case of shingles about 18-20 years ago and I think that's it for childhood diseases.  I think a shot I had when young was for tetanus - lockjaw? 

I wonder what those parents are thinking when they don't want their children to have the vaccinations.  If they spread the measles germ around, could other parents sue them if their child catches the measles?

A grandparent on both sides of my family was one of 13.  My maternal grandmother was one of 11 who married and had children; two sibs died young.  My paternal grandfather was one of 10 who married and had children; 3 died young.  Both of my parents had a lot of cousins but they all lived in Wisconsin or Minnesota and we seldom saw them.

Yes, Marilyn, I do remember Junee and she posts somewhere I read occasionally.  She came to the US at one time and she and Sally Hales (Whimsy) went to Florida, later Grand Haven to see Norm and Dot.  I did not meet her but I have corresponded with her.  You're right, I think she is 97 or 98, older than June Drabek, Gloria de or me.

Tom just got home from a disappointing day of subbing.  He was at a middle school where he has been before, but I guess the kids gave him a hard time and he said he probably will not go back.

Mary Ann

Lindancer

[Good evening. Son again to morrow,last week it was rain every day.  But Spring is just 21 days away Jackie, sorry to hear about all of Richards problems, but as you say he can be helped.  So happy to see you also will be taken care of.  Prays for both of you

MaryAnn, we need Junie back in S& F, as there is so few in our 90's club. and she is senior  :)  I think it was a chickenpox shot I got, the doctor did 3 scratches with a needle and I had to wear a round plastic cap  with holes in it.on my arm till it healed
 I use to like to post in Annie's attic in S&F, there was one post about a front porch. There was a man from Louisiana , had been state coroner. was a moderator he had 3 daughters once his wife got sick and we came here I never heard from him again. It was fun talking old stories from the past with him.

MaryAnn, I also played with paper dolls.  My mother got me a doll in a trunk, she came with shoes, hats and dresses. You could keep changing her cloths. A Couple of my other friends also had the same doll, and we would play on one of our porches in the summer time

Click for Riverhead, NY Forecast

Lindancer

oh! I should proof read, but was in a hurry to post.  the word I misused was suppose to be snow. sorry :-[

Click for Riverhead, NY Forecast

Mary Ann

#12276
Gloria, I thought you meant "sun", didn't think of "snow".

My first vaccination was on my leg because my mother didn't want the scar to show on my arm if I wore short sleeves.  I think the shot was for smallpox, but I really don't remember; I am sure it was not for chicken pox.  In 1976 I went to Guatemala and I had to have another vaccination and this time I let the nurse put it in my arm.  The first one I had a cap over it until the scab disappeared.  The second one I think may have been a shot but regardless I don't think I had even a bandaid on it. 

When I was six, I received a Baby Dimples doll, I think from my aunt and uncle.  It was during the Depression and I doubt myI folks had money for a doll.  I'm surprised my aunt would have had money - anyway, I still have that doll.  At a later date, I received an Effanbee doll and I still have her too.  I had another one that my mother suggested I give to a girl who had no doll and her family was very poor.  So I gave that doll away.  I had only six dolls and didn't play with them too much.

Mary Ann



angelface555

#12277
My older sister and I had injections but the time my youngest sister was born in 1961, they were putting the meds in sugar cubes. When I was born in the summer of 1951, the city was amid a polio epidemic and a dire shortage of iron lungs.

 Unfortunately, almost every other place had that same shortage. I did get both measles and mumps as well as chickenpox, we must not have had those shots available.  My younger sister did not, she was vaccinated. There were also children in my hometown disabled by Scarlet fever.

After the flood in 1967, the army had soldiers canvas the town and you would pass between two guys, each with one of those multiple injection guns. They now say many diseases and cases of flu are on the rebound due to overuse of antibiotics and fools such as the Republicans mentioned below. Last year, 2018, an estimated 80,000 Americans died of the flu. Think about that for a minute.

Gloria, I played with paper dolls and regular dolls but only if I had other girls for company. The majority of the time was rough play as my sisters and I were the only girls in the neighborhood. One family had eight stairstep boys. I did enjoy getting the Betsy paper doll from the McCalls Magazine after my mother was finished with it. I was also....surprisingly...a bookworm.

.

so_P_bubble

 Angel, about measles:

Here the classes have a trip organized to visit the Auschwitz camp In Poland with the 12y old children, as part of the curriculum about the holocaust.
This year, on arrival, one of the girls was feeling ill and was taken to  a local hospital. She was diagnosed with measles and put straight away  in isolation because of the contagion.  Israel had to send two doctors with enough serum to vaccinate the whole class that had been in contact with her.

Meanwhile it was discovered that contrary to the children in Israel who get the routine vaccinations, the parents of that particular girl did not vaccinate their kids probably on religious grants. The younger sister had measles and that is probably how the girl got it.

The problem now is that the girl is not allowed to get back home for treatment, for fear of giving the sickness to fellow travelers on the plane!  She will have to remain in Poland until she recovers.

I wonder if the parents will reconsider their decision?
This story was on the radio news yesterday.

larryhanna

Hi Everyone. We do have the sun this morning and should get into the low 70's.  I am going to read all of the postings since yesterday.  Yesterday was not a good day for me in terms of any energy and today seems to be getting the same start.  I will just be having another very quiet day of rest.

Mary Ann

It's good to hear from you this morning, Larry.  I wish we would have your pleasant temperature.

I'll be back later if I have anything to say. 

Mary Ann

angelface555

Bubble people are crazy and science has shown that for many folks, the less they actually know about a subject, the more fervent they are in believing they're experts! And I couldn't believe the hubris of that Arizona rep!

That girl's parents will probably complain that they're being persecuted!

Good morning Larry, MaryAnn!

Joy

Good morning,  Larry, Bubble and Mary Ann.  And,  also all the other friends who come in later.


Bubble, I have 2 grand daughters who do not believe in getting their little ones the shots,  And, it really upsets me.  I know a lot of schools will not let children attend if they do not have the shots. I think that is why a lot of parents choose to home-school their children.  My grand daughters feel that the shots can cause autism,  which has not been proven to be true at all.  I really worry about them.


Mary Ann,  I just watched the web cam from the Two Harbors Boat Launch site for about an hour. From a little after 8 CST to almost 9.  There were 3 men who must have taken close to that hour unloading, what looked like the "everything but the kitchen sink" to go ice fishing.  I started watching when I noticed that they were pulling a boat trailer,  which looked to have a boat on it all covered up with a tarp,  It took them a while to get everything situated and then one of them unloaded a step-ladder from their truck and preceded to remove the tarp and I could tell it was some kind of a boat, but couldn't see the whole thing.  I could tell they unloaded the trailer and one of the men moved the truck a little out of the way.  I still couldn't see much of what kind of boat they had, but they preceded to unload all kinds of stuff from the truck.  Lawn chairs, ice coolers, a huge auger and a smaller one, several things wrapped in tarps. and I don't know what else.  Finally one of the men drove the truck away to park it .  When he came back, all 3 of them started putting all this stuff into the boat. One of the men left and after a few minutes the other two went flying onto the lake in an air boat.  I just couldn't believe what I was seeing. Just like the air boats they use in Florida on the swamp tours.  I watched until they went out of sight out past the lighthouse way out on the lake.  I am thinking that maybe they do plan to spend the night with all the stuff they had.  There were some other huts way out on the lake, too.


I think you have to be a very dedicated fisherman to go through all that to go ice fishing.  I know it took them the best part of an hour to do all this work.  That sure made for an interesting hour to watch something I had never seen before.  I was hoping that maybe you had seen it also.  There was another truck with 3 men who came right after this air boat left, but they only had sleds they were pulling with their supplies on it.  There was a regular path all the way out almost as far as you could see.


I guess when you have lived all your life in that area,  you just get accustomed to that kind of hobby.  Wouldn't be my choice. LOL


It has been a very interesting morning.


Hope everyone will have a pleasant day.


Joy
BIG BOX

Joy

I can understand why some of you are getting frustrated with the new changes,  as I have tried 3 times to change the font to bold and to change the size.   Very frustrating.

Joy
BIG BOX

CallieOK

Good Morning,

Joy,  I've seen guys coming in with the sleds and wish I could have seen the guys going out on the air-boat!   Have you looked at the Depot cam?  You can see little dots way out beyond the end of the pier in the background.  Looks like a very long way to walk just to catch a fish!!

I also had all the "childhood diseases" - except mumps.  "Had to wait" until the second year of teaching to catch them from my darling 2nd graders.   Fortunately, I didn't swell up very much or get very sick.
A year earlier,  my husband-to-be and I had gone to pick out my engagement ring. I didn't feel well and so he told me to go home,  take a hot bath and get some sleep.  When I stepped out of the tub, I was covered with little red spots.  Yep - had caught German measles ("3-day") from that year's students!  Fortunately in this case,  I was all better by the next Sunday, which was Easter, and he "formally" gave me my ring before going to church and lunch with his family.

I loved playing with paper dolls.  Used to cut furniture out of the Sears catalog to make "homes" for them.   Actually found some when granddaughters were little.  Didn't have a catalog for house-making but did teach them how to trace around the bodies and create outfits.

I'm seeing some of the "spring bird" couples at the feeders.  Nesting season must be starting.

Mary Ann

Joy and Callie, unfortunately, I did not see the men getting set up for ice fishing.  In the summer, I have seen some boats loaded with equipment,  however, they can keep their equipment in the boat when they take it home.  Callie, I look at both the Boat Launch and the Depot when I look that way.  Joy, it must have been fascinating to see the preparation the men had to make before going out on the lake.  I think I have not seen an air boat.

In Michigan, we have Houghton Lake in the middle of the Lower Peninsula and I understand they have shanty villages there.  Then comes Spring and everyone does not get their shanties off the ice in time!

Mary Ann

JeanneP

I remember getting that shot with the needle in UK in order to come into US daughter also. It was for smallpox I believe. Did it on my hip. It left I big white mark that stayed for years.  The were really strict years ago on health getting in . Even had to have X-ray to show for T b. And this was coming in first class. 
Seems looked now they don't check. I think that i.e. why so many  things now showing back up in US
.we have had 6 cases of measles this year already in my town.lots of T B. . Specially over in university. Have 9000 from Asian countries right now.
JeanneP

Marilyne

#12287
I'm off to a late start this morning.  Yesterday I got out and got a lot done, and managed to post in a few folders.  Today, I'm slow and stiff, and wish that the weekend was over and done with.   

I'm also interested in the "Shanty Villages", on the lake! I can't imagine sitting out there fishing in such freezing weather, but I think AJ would like it, and I know that my father would have loved it. Both of them are, or were, interested in fishing of all kinds, and in all seasons.

Callie - I also loved playing paper dolls when I was young.  I always asked for paper dolls for birthday and Christmas, and loved to cut out the clothes and accessories.  Remember those large hard covered pattern books, that were available to look through at fabric shops?  Simplicity, McCalls, etc.  My mother and grandmother sewed a lot, and I would often go with them to pick out patterns and material, etc.  We found out that the old books, were thrown away a couple of times a year, to make way for Spring or Fall styles, and we could help ourselves to the outdated ones. An endless selection of girls and women, and clothes,  for me to turn into paper dolls.!  It sure made a mess at home though.  Those books took up a lot of room, and were very unwieldy!

Well, I see that morning is almost over .. . it will be 12:00 noon in five minutes.  I had better get a move on, but will return later.
   

Lindancer

MaryAnn, it was for smallpox. for years you could see that vaccination. I got measles when I was 21, just got a job in an office on Broad St in Charleston. Being I was new lost the job. Next job was on King St.in THE LADY JANE, Half the store was ready to wear and the other side was millinery that is where I worked  till I got married and came back North

I looked at Duluth Harbor about and hour ago, there were 5 people beyond the fence, they then jumped or clamied down onto the ice by the lighthouse :idiot2:

Click for Riverhead, NY Forecast

Mary Ann

#12289
Marilyn, those ice fishermen have all the comforts of home.  They wear warm clothing, but I think they also have some type of heaters with them.  They can put the heaters on something to keep them off the ice so the ice doesn't melt. 

Gloria, I have never seen anyone beyond the barrier, but I'm not surprised.  Young kids will try anything. 

We're at 34 degrees now and I notice in the forecasts there are more days with temps above freezing. Out my kitchen window, it is bright white because the sun is shining but the roads are clear. 

I'm watching golf from Palm Beach FL.  I recognize most of the players, but there are some names I've never seen before, including the leader.  I have the TV on mute.

Nuts, I copied a neat site for ice fishing equipment and shanties but it didn't paste here.  I'll try again.

Mary Ann

Mary Ann

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=ice+fishing+shanty

I went back and got a better link.  Scroll down and you'll see some neat shanties.  Those fishermen doesn't lack for anything.

Mary Ann

CallieOK

#12291
About an hour ago I saw someone parasailing on the ice (Two Harbors Depot cam) - probably using ice skates.
He fell and seemed to be trying to get the parasail going to pull himself up.  I had to leave without seeing what happened.  Just checked and there's something on the ice where the parasail was and a hut has appeared between it and the depot docks.
Quite a few walking back and forth on the pier (or whatever that long thing sticking out into the water is) - two with sleds.


Wonder what they'd say if they knew all these "ladies of a certain age" are watching them from all over the country?  :)  :) :)


Marilyne, my mother and grandmothers could sew on buttons and hem dishtowels but that's about the extent of their sewing.  I do remember the pattern books, though, and they would have made great paper dolls.

Mary Ann, saw your link about fishing shanties as a "Warning...." when I clicked post for mine.  Don't want to lose this so will check as soon as mine has been entered.  Thanks.

Edit:  Those are amazing.  I'll bet the Bass Pro shops here don't carry them.  :) 

Mary Ann

Callie, was the "warning" about the site, as if it was not safe?  I clicked on the link and got the link OK.  With the right shanty, they sure don't lack for anything.  I think I have never seen a shanty up close but I have seen many pictures of them on Houghton Lake, which is a large inland lake.  I tried to see if there were any ice fishing pictures but I didn't want to stay there long enough to find out.

I've never seen anyone parasailing onto the lake at Two Harbors.  I watch that site often, but I guess I'm not there at the right time.  I wonder, too, if those people in the cam shots realize they're on camera.

I found out our Cabela stores are part of Bass Pro Shops. 

Mary Ann

Marilyne

Mary Ann - I had no idea!!  I just looked at a whole page of ice shanties, that show both outside and inside. They look almost  as comfortable as my living room. :D  Some had stoves for warmth, as well as for cooking. One even had a TV!!   All the comforts of home. :thumbup: 

Did anyone see the news story last night, about the man who fell through the ice on one of the lakes?  Fortunately he was rescued by some firefighters and policemen.  I don't remember where it was, but the area looked a lot like Grand Haven . . . the way the waves freeze close to shore, but the water further out has a flat thin sheet of ice.  Apparently he went through that flat sheet.  The rescuers were all on the frozen wave part.   

CallieOK

Mary Ann. The warning isnt a safety thing. Its to let you know someone has posted while you were typing in case you want to add to or edit your post.

Mary Ann

Callie,  good it was not a bad warning.

Marilyn, I did not see anything about a man being rescued and I think if it was around Grand Haven, it would have been mentioned.  I'm glad he was rescued.  People are so foolish to think they can walk on the frozen part that is not thick enough to hold an adult's weight.  Every year there are stories about rescues by the south pier (the one you see in the site).  Even in summer, people get too close to the pier, especially in high waves, and lose their lives.  I had friends who lost a  young son one year.

Those shanties are something else, aren't they?

Mary Ann


 

CallieOK

I got on the Boat Launch cam in time to see an ice boat coming in just before sunset.  It had a big propeller on the back and went right up onto the road, turned left and disappeared.  Guess he was going to drive it home. :)
Then I switched back and forth between there and the Depot cam to watch a group pack up their hut and walk in pulling sleds.  Took them less than 10 minutes to walk from almost the end of the pier to their cars - must not be nearly as far as it looks.
The parasail was gone.

Enjoy your evening, Everyfriend - and sleep well.

Mary Ann

Callie, I wish I'd been watching when you were.  Actually, this is the first year I've watched the ship sites so I didn't know about the fishing shacks until I saw some or someone mentioned them. 

Mary Ann

angelface555

#12298
While there is ice fishing here in the winter, it's never been anything I've been interested in altho I was a very devout summer fisherwoman in my youth. I've never seen the lure of freezing to catch a fish, television and camp stove notwithstanding.

MarsGal, I started reading a book tonight, "Prague Winter" by Madeleine Albright, former secretary of state about her youth in Prague. Discussing the history of Prague and the Czechs, she mentioned something that brought to mind our earlier discussion.

She said, paraphrased; "The earliest settlers were the Boii, a Celtic tribe on the run from northern floods. Those pioneers were gradually pushed out by Germanic warriors, who were then suppressed by the legions of imperial Rome. The Romans called the land, "Bohemia" after the Boii which means that the territory was named by Italians in honor of the Irish, demonstrating--if nothing else--that globalization is not new.

She also spoke about her father who was involved in the Czechoslovakian government and intellectualism in the period between the two world wars. She wrote about his being among the officers of a civics affairs and debating society centered in Prague that attracted ambitious young professionals working in government, journalism, and academia before being sent to Yugoslavia as a Czechoslovakian government envoy.

I'm finding the book fascinating. For example, did you know the "Good King Wenceslas" that we celebrate in Christmas carols each year was an early Christian martyr?

MarsGal

That does sound interesting, Patricia. I used to know a fellow by the name of OBradovich. I forget exactly where in Eastern Europe his family was from, but as he explained it, his ancestors were of Irish decent. The Irish descendants in that region dropped the apostrophe in the name. I never thought about asking how long ago in history that came about. BTW, I got word yesterday from the library that A History of the First Bulgarian Empire by Steven Runciman is ready for pick-up. I completely forgot I ordered it.

I am not looking forward to the upcoming snowstorm. We've already had several close together, the last two being very wet, heavy snow. This one is to dump about six inches, and since it is fairly "warm", I expect it to be heavy too. My muscles are not much up to shoveling more for a while. I am going to go feed George's cats this morning before it all starts, then they are on their own probably until Tuesday or Wednesday depending on how much I am up to shoveling. The snow plows have a nasty habit of shoving snow up over the sidewalk after I shovel, and that stuff is even nastier to shovel.

My sister, whose daughter is getting married in Singapore in April, ended up with a herniated disc. Turns out that a bit of it came apart and is floating around in there. They are going to remove that, hopefully in time for her to recuperate and participate in the wedding. The hold-up, of course, is waiting for the insurance company to approve the procedure.